By Jocelyn Anderson
Woman Submit! Christians & Domestic Violence
It is an unarguable fact that humans need and want boundaries, so it should come as no surprise that as Biblical Christianity declines, being replaced by a predominantly soft-on-doctrine-don’t-be-judgmental approach, the need for boundaries and structure within the Christian community becomes painfully evident.
How convenient for hierarchalists, as this type of Christianity leaves little use for the Lordship of Christ, the guidance of His Holy Spirit, or the assurance of His Written Word.
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“Can Christian Women Gone Wild Save Us From New Calvinism?” “……to Phil Johnson’s point, how dare that woomun call out a man of “Piper’s stature” (did he really say that? Let me check again.Yep, he sure did). Well, that pretty much says it all—if one of the who’s who of the evangelical world teaches error, the uneducated book-buying peasants of American church culture need to keep their mouths shut and submit to the “ruling elders.” Worse yet, if not unthinkable, is the idea that one of the woomun peasants would speak out!”
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In patriocentric circles, the most widely held and common belief is that of husbands sanctifying their wives or in some way governing or participating in the sanctification of their wives. The first part of the statement indicates that this is a one-to-one relationship or parallel between the work of Christ and the work of husbands in the lives of their wives. The second half of the statement that the husbands should long and work and love and pray for his wife’s spiritual growth, but this is entirely different from what is implied by equating the husband’s role with working to somehow make his wife “holy and without blemish” as Christ does for the church. Bruce Ware does apply this as applicable not only to Christ’s sanctifying of the church but also relates this as the serious responsibility of a husband towards his wife, does he not? Somehow it is the husband’s dutyto affect this for his own wife as if it is within man’s capabilities to render his wife holy and without spot or blemish! How can a man render his wife holy when man himself lacks the ability to make even himself the least bit holy? Unless he denies that this is his meaning. What then is the meaning of the first part of that statement concerning Ephesians 5:27?
Certainly a man should long for his wife’s spiritual growth, loving and praying for her, but how does another human being “work” towards this end, affecting something that only Christ can do? Only Christ can make us holy through His Blood and only He can cleanse us from our maculae and stains, presenting us holy and blameless before the Father. Man does not act as intercessor for his wife, and that is not what the Word teaches. But, as Bruce Ware states other places, if woman is the indirect image of God because Eve, the first woman, was taken from Adam’s substance, and she is thus rendered as of a lesser essence either physically or metaphysically (ontologically), then it gives reason that a greater creature could render this care of making one holy. If woman realizes her being and calling only through man and her husband is her intercessor before Christ, than this idea that husband sanctifies his wife is reasonable.
Filed under: Patriarchy Movement Tagged: | biblical gender roles, Biblical Patriarchy, Bruce Ware, caste system, CBMW, church authority, ESS, Hierarchalists, new calvinism, patriocentic church, priest craft, submission doctrine, Vision Forum
Oh yes, Jo, that was an amazing proclamation. He also gave another one in that same article…addressing the men here:
“Everything you do, everything you say, every way you lead, is to be a reflection of that great portrait of the real marriage.”
Wonder how that is going for him…that would be a lot of pressure –everything you do, everything you say, every way…wow. I guess if he fails, then that is a reflection of a mediocre fake marriage…?
Silly.
btw- I think Jesus is still the subject of Eph 5:26-27…not my husband. One of the comments on that article:
“Ben
I don’t see in Eph. 5 a command for husbands to “wash their wives in the word.” I think it is important in this passage to clearly dilineate what Christ is described as doing and what husbands are called to do. In this passage, husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loved the church. This is described as a sacrificial love that we are to imitate. However, it seems that Paul then moves to describe exactly how Christ did this with the church in a way that cannot be imitated precisely. He “cleansed her by the washing of water with the word so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.” Then – and only then – does he move back to how husbands should parallel this: “In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.” That “in the same way” seems critically important. Husband’s parallel Christ’s sanctification of his church by nourishing and cherishing their wives. Does this include nourishing them by the Word? Absolutley. But the point of “cleansed them by the washing of water by the word” is that Christ sanctifies his church to present her to himself, and taken further, because she is “his own body.” To say that a husband sanctifies and presents his wife to Christ” I think is overstepping the analogy. Husbands do not, in fact cannot, sanctify their wives in the way that Christ sanctifies the church. Our job is to nourish and cherish them as we would ourselves. That is how we picture Christ. By this I do not want to negate the importance of us leading our wives in the word, but rather remove the pressure that would come if our wife’s sanctification were our responsibility.
Like
1 month ago”
http://challi.he253.vps.webenabled.net/christian-living/a-picture-perfect-marriage-iii#disqus_thread
It’s amazing how far a group will go to further their agenda. In this case the wicked twist of Eph 5, turning ‘He’ into the duty of man. I agree Diane, there is much talk about the women in this movement, very few on the tremendous pressure this puts on the man. Well, so goes the “Gender Gospel”
Thanks for putting up this comment by Ben, very good.
“Submission, therefore, becomes the final arbiter of whether or not a person is in rebellion against God?”
Yes….submission… and doing it the “right way” has “gospel implications” as well, as discussed by Voddie Baucham here:
“They (men) understood the implications of the gospel being worked out in their role as a husband and a father…”
http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/voddie-baucham-ministries/blog/voddie-baucham-family-shepherds-2012-01/
Gospel being worked out? As in salvation gospel? Or is this another gospel? So, if one is not doing it Baucham’s way, then the gospel is not being worked out–displayed–adhered to? Is the implication, then, that a person’s salvation is in question?
And, Baucham says seeing the questions out there that he claims are evident–primarily that Christian men do not know how to be men, (I guess the bible is lax on that?) and men clearly do want to know, and seeing the fruit of this “gospel implications- man leading- shepherd role” being worked out in his own church…this is what motivated him to write his book, “Family Shepherds” and Voddie is the just the one to show us how it is done. To show Christian men how to be men. Men, according to Baucham, are the priests, prophets, and providers in their homes. And Baucham has a certain “direction” he intends to take men in their role in leading their families, as he states in the video.
The husband is the “leader” spiritually for his wife and “washes her with the water of the word,” according to Baucham. (btw-I have nothing against men being leaders and leading their families spiritually and teaching the bible to their families…and have a husband who does just that…it’s the excesses in patriarchy being defined as the “gospel and biblical” way that disturb me.) And if the husband is a priest, and we see in the video above that Baucham believes the husband washes his wife with the water of the word, I can’t help but come away with the impression that the husband is doing something for a wife spiritually that she is not able to access herself. There’s the danger.
It is Christ Who washes us, cleanses us, makes us holy, prepares us for Himself as radiant, without stain, or wrinkle, or blemish…isn’t Jesus the subject of Ephesians 5:26-27? Jesus is our Priest Who does all of this…and a husband is to love like Jesus…in a similar sacrificial way, as far as laying his own life down. It’s fine, great, for a husband to lead in prayer and bible study…but remember, we only have one Mediator.
The Linguistic Snare of Men as Prophet, Priest and King for families.
http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/12/linguistic-snare-of-men-as-prophet.html
Great link Diane. Cindy also has a link to The Shepherding Movement, in that article, (some of the other links are not working in this particular article, but can look up that info on Under Much Grace, (for anyone interested
Good info here – “I do not know what circumstances might have precipitated the “breaking out of all hell,” but I can speculate that if this group was knowledgeable about Baucham’s other doctrines that expand the scope of men and narrow the scope of women in both the church and their lives in society, the ambiguity resulting from his redefined terms gave them extra cause to question him….”
Thanks for link! Also the prerequisite post that is mentioned is a must read! The Logical Fallacy of Redefining Terms and Other Boobytraps
Is this from Muslims or Catholics?!!…Are the women in these churches going to be wearing burkas soon? (I seriously wonder… in practice many already are, BUT another subject for another day)
Patriarchy, talking about it gets us in trouble every time
Since you mentioned how this “gospel” works out, will go back to the world’s most famous blogger, so he can give us a ‘picture’ of this…From Picture Perfect Marriage series…..
“Paul paints this picture of Jesus Christ dying for his people so they could be made holy, so they could be presented to him, so they could stand before him free from any kind of blemish. That is your future and it is mine. That is what Christ promises and we are all looking forward to that day. Now let’s apply that to marriage. Husband, you need to picture yourself one day presenting your wife to the Lord! There you are, standing beside her before the Lord and saying, “Here she is! Here is the wife you gave to me. Look how beautiful she is! I have given up my life for her, I have washed her in the Word, and now here she is. I present her to you.”
Do you see what your wife will be on that day? On that day she will be completely free from sin. Every shred of sin, every shred of imperfection will be gone. That old self will have been put off entirely and the new self will be all that she is. She will be completely holy, completely pure and clean, all that God created her to be. As beautiful as she is now, she will be more beautiful in that day.”
A Picture Perfect Marriage
In patrocentic teachings this is in their loaded language, but with this article, it flat out tells us that husbands do indeed sanctify their wives…and then to top it off, to say, ““Here she is!…. I have washed her in the Word, and now here she is. I present her to you.” Unbelievable!!
Good posting/commenting Diane!!! “….isn’t Jesus the subject of Ephesians 5:26-27?”…. Not anymore!!!!, according to the patriarchists.
Outstanding. This “demand” for submission — which “x’s out” Jesus, the Word, the Spirit — is about us “getting in the flesh” to submit to a man in the flesh… with Jesus NOWHERE in the equation in Spirit. That is, because missing from the equation is the requirement that those who call for submission are themselves submitted to Jesus, the Word, the Spirit — and thereby the Father themselves. Suddenly, they are “beyond reproach” and outside accountability a cult leaders and false gods who demand submission to themselves from others but reject submission themselves to God in their stands in which they demand submission — as man-made idols who are no gods. WE shall have no false gods before our god. If you want submission — BE JESUS. Let Jesus live within you so powerfully that when we see YOU — we see not YOU — but Christ who lives in you. Because as far as YOU — you have no right nor power nor authority in Christ to demand submission to your flesh in will worship as a god. You’re no god.
To Christ alone we will submit. Get in Christ and walk in the Spirit — submit to the Son and thus the Father in Him — working out your own salvation – and the Spirit will bring us all into mutual submission and unity in perfect love.
Exactly. Crazy, just sheer madness, what’s going on out there in these authoritarian churches. Such a huge topic!!! Lot’s of priest-craft going on. The control these guys are throwing around is amazing to say the least. And I thought it was bad in the 70′s, 80′s 90′s!!!! The blatant statements of the ‘popes’ in these churches, that’s going on in the last few years, just unbelievable.
“Suddenly, they are “beyond reproach” and outside accountability a cult leaders and false gods who demand submission to themselves from others but reject submission themselves to God in their stands in which they demand submission — as man-made idols who are no gods.” Amen.
Thanks for comments!
Your welcome. Thank you so much for very interesting, informative articles that cause us to contemplate really the role of the Holy Spirit in the church — and how we are “missing Him” — missing sanctification — by not submitting to God and His Word. “Doctrine” has application that produces real fruit and real sanctification. It’s very good to contemplate where we the church are “missing it” doctrinally and seeing the need for change. (I not only note the errors I see in others — it always “helps me” check my own radar.) I’ve really enjoyed the articles and know it’s work to produce them. Thank you again.
It would be really nice if we could just “think” about the cross or ‘behold as a way of becoming’ or “breath in” sanctification, in matters of holiness, with the idea that Jesus obeyed FOR us, and that we just absorb His obedience, lol….but like you said, “real fruit and real sanctification.”…yes, synergistic sanctification, not this “progressive justification’ and monergistic sanctification that is being taught. Speaking of that, just thought of this article, so good. The Grace Boys.
Thank you 12 Star Truth!
You know, I clicked on that link “The Grace Boys” — and I read the article. It leaves me so confused for a moment, I have to shake my head and regain clarity. Because I truly believe the same. We need to REALIZE Jesus… if we see Him as He is… we will become like Him. These are the things I have known and pursued from the time I was saved as a small child. But, where the confusion comes in — is I don’t believe the “New Calvinists” are using the same terms the same way. For example, what the Spirit ministers to me about REALIZING JESUS — is the path of illumination, vivification, sanctification in truth as Jesus is revealed through the Word in living power of the Holy Spirit through… sound doctrine. Therefore, doctrine — the Word — is always the focus. See, because we are transformed and conformed into the image of Jesus by the renewing of our minds by the Word of God — as we are sanctified in truth — edified in faith.
This is why doctrine matters so much. But, when I see people protesting against the things I believe and pursue… then I kind of shake my head — am confused… and realize… perhaps the “New Calvinists” and such are seeking to “see Jesus” in other ways than through the illumination of sound doctrine??
If one really, really wants to REALIZE JESUS — we must become systematic theologians in study and sanctification in truth in living power. And, it is these same “New Calvinists” who are taking people off the path… perhaps… while using the same terms that mean “study yourself to be approved rightly dividing the Word of Truth”… and turning it into some kind of WordLESS yoga or something?? lol
When someone says, “Read this!!” ~~ I typically will… if I have learned from them as I have from this site. (Like a faithful student of the Word.
Well, the article had me confused because the words were words I use — but using those words I mean BIBLE STUDY and the importance of sound doctrine. And, I was thinking, maybe they mean “WordLESS realization” — like New Age yoga or something. I wish people would stop using the words I use if they don’t mean the same things I mean!! 
God bless you.
It’s like when New Age buzz words hit the church years ago, no one knew what they meant, and because few knew what was behind the words, bought into the New Age. (nice trick!) Now the “Old New Age” is the “New Spirituality” So same thing as you are talking about. Yea, they don’t mean what we think they mean!!
You said, “while using the same terms that mean “study yourself to be approved rightly dividing the Word of Truth”… and turning it into some kind of WordLESS yoga or something?? lol” Thinking of Piper, again, and his practice, now, of lectio divina…he sure has taken it to a different level of “becoming”… little to do with renewing of our minds by the Word of God!
I wish they would quit loading terms, as well, but isn’t going to happen, so we’ll study their terms and not come to terms with them, but expose the terms
Blessings to you!
I’m looking forward to the next posts here. These persons “renaming” neo-pelagianism or whatever it is the “New Calvinism”. lol The chutzpah!! (As a reader of John Calvin’s works, I love when he calls such men “calumniators!” in his writings.)
Perhaps you can do John Calvin a favor, and “rename” the “New Calvinists” the “New Calumniators”. [Definition: To make maliciously or knowingly false statements about.... (ie. John CALVIN).]
Looking forward to more posts. God bless you.
Now there’s an idea! Too funny. Thou unholy calumniator of the Truth!!!! Perfect!
lol “New Calumniators”. Honestly, whenever I see “New Calvinism” – that’s what I will “rename it” in my own eyes.
God bless.